not sure of what all models,But remington is having some of there rifles made in mexico
Did you mean their Spartan series thats imported from Russia?
I don't think Remington makes any guns in Mexico.
Maybe Remington has their injection molded synthetic stocks made in Mexico?
CORRECT, an adl is an adl, regardles of where it is sold. the issue is WHEN it was made. back in the days before, say 1975-80, (not sure of exact years, some depend on mdl types), guns were assembled,parts polished,fitted together and inleted in good quality wood stocks BY HUMANS that knew and did their jobs well and with pride. they weren't flipping burgers last week and working on an assembly line this week. there was strick inspection and quality control. many guns that leave the factories today would have never passed inspection years ago. today the more time required for humans to be hands on in mfg, drives up the price. today you may get a great one, a lousy one or anywhere in between. they just make em and sell em and statisticly most buyers won't shoot them enough to notice any problems, or if they do many won't want to go thru the hassle of returning them and either live with it, pay a gunsmith out of pocket to correct it, or sell it to another person that doesn't know any better. not meaning to slam w-w you could get the same innexpensive gun from dicks,gander,bps etc. if you don't mind settling for good enough, don't appreciate real quality, don't mind a rough poorly polished bbl with a high % of tool marks, that will collect enough copper to sell for scrap in a few hundred rounds,a terrible heavy trigger, bad metal to metal and metal to plastic fit, and a hollow injection molded plastic stock that kicks like a mule, has zero charector or warmth, then you can run to a big chain store and get the gun of your dreams 24-7, for a low low price. and it's a dam shame cuz there are plenty of the good quality older used guns out there if you put in a little time and effort, for less money.
Nachogrande,
I know where you are coming from because I too appreciate high quality workmanship in products. But I’m not sure if guns of past are as good as we seem to think they were. I’ve seen plenty or poor workmanship on rifles of past including a Winchester 70 in .222 that came from the factory with the sear polished a little too much and trigger would trip if the cocked rifle was bumped on the butt stock. We used to call them “Friday afternoon” specials. I will agree that rifles of past were smooth and had “character”.
I started shooting long range rifle matches back in the 70’s with my dad using Winchester and Remington varmint rifles in various calibers with top of the line Weaver and Redfield scopes. Back then a rifle that could shoot 1” groups at 100 yards using match ammo or hand-load was pretty rare. Today pretty much all rifles, even sporter models, are expected to shoot 1” groups… and most do. I have a Remington 700 VS in 308 that shot 2" groups from 300 yards right out of the box. That was unheard of 40 years ago.
In the past we depended on human hands to fit many rifle parts. We depended on their experience, knowledge and their work ethics to produce high quality rifles. Today we use precision machinery to make our products and depend on their precision to control quality. Humans have good days and bad days so quality even from one worker can vary daily or even hourly. Machines have no such variations. They produce consistent quality all the time. Let’s say products made by worker #1 vary in quality from 6 to 8 and from worker #2 from 7 to 9 and worker #3 from 5 to 7. At the end of the day you have rifles that range in quality from 5 to 9 where as rifles made by machine will all be between 8 to 8 1/2. Another words man made products could be mediocre to excellent while machine made products will be very good all the time.
My daily do it all rifle is a Remington 700 ADL with injection molded stock. It has the utilitarian matte finish on the barrel, receiver and the bolt. It has no personality what so ever but I love that rifle because it does what it was designed to do very well… kill games. I don’t have to worry about getting the stock wet in the rain for fear of warping the stock or rusting the metal. The point of impact doesn’t change with the humidity level and it will shoot 1” groups at 100 yards with my hunting ammo any day. The trigger pull is about 4 ½ lb. which is too heavy but in this day and age I don’t expect 2 lb. triggers from factory due to liability issues.
I have “beauty queens” in my safe like the Colt Python revolvers and H&K P7M8 pistols which I admire their craftsmanship and beauty but they are not what I carry when I go walking in the woods. Instead I carry an well used 1911A1 Government Model with matte moly finish and wood grips because in it’s own way the utilitarian feature of that pistol gives it character and beauty.
As time goes by we tend to remember the good and forget the bad.
This has gotten very interesting. First, the 700 ADL referred to by treefarmer was a "grade" and at the time Remington only had three graded 700 models, all of which had the same craftmanship and quality in the build. The only difference in the 60's and 70's guns between an ADL, BDL and "Classic" (the classic was a 700 made in 1 caliber per year, changing every year, for nearly 25 years" discontinued sometime in the late 80's or early 90's) was "features" i.e. better quality wood, hindged floor plates, jeweled bolts, highly polished, better finish (blueing) on receiver and barrel, recoil pads, ect. The MSRP or retail price of these guns in those days was very close in proximity, I'd guess less than $100.00 difference. They all had the same quailty control, hands on fitting, polishing, ect. They were the same action, receiver and barrel, one had power windows and the other didn't.
KC45, I'll agree to disagree with your last post. We all know about Monday Morning hangover and Friday Afternoon products. It happened with everything produced in the US before the age of the computer and machine/technology on our modern assembly line. Yes, the quality is probably closer to an overall rating of 8 out of 10 with a machined gun, where before you could get a gun rated between a 5 and a 10 depending upon the employee and day of the week. The difference in my opinion is that far more firearms left the factory as a 9 or 10 than did a 5 or 6 when it comes to quality fo build. Secondly, if you happened to get a Monday Morning Hangover or Friday Afternoon gun that had issues, didn't shoot straight, or malfunctioned all the time all you had to do was send it back and Remington would be happy to fix it and normally just replaced it with a new gun. Try that today with an ADL from Walmart that only shoots 3" groups at 100 yards and they will tell you it's within tolerance. Today the CDL replaced the "classic 700" as I mentioned above. Do you think there is a reason why the CDL and BDL of today MSRP over $1000.00 and the ADL MSRP's around $479.00? I bought an ADL new a couple year ago on sale for $329.00 that had a $50.00 mail in rebate as well. The injection modeled stock was so bad the mold line wasn't even straight. Absolutely no quality control. IMHO Remington firearms have gone to shit in the last 10-15 years unless you order from the custom shop or you drop the coin on a higher graded new gun. I believe Remington has got so wrapped up in buying up every firearm, ammo and outdoor accessory company so they can produce more inventory (quantity) which has allowed them to stay in business and compete with the "cheaper less expensive" gun market. Remington and it's Corp. Dupont own like 8-10 different companies now in the "Group". They are a joke! They appear to be using the business model of "lets make 4% of $500,000,000 instead of 12% of $200,000,000 a year in profit and turn out quantity instead of quality to stay alive.
The precision machinery in the Remingtom line today is just that. It's a machine, and only as good as the 25 year old engineer setting it up. A good example are the new Marlin lever action rifles being produced by Remington (Remington bought out Marlin a few years ago). They are junk compared to the originals made by Marlin. Take a look at the auction sites and Marlin forums and they are now referring to old stock new in box Marlins and older Marlin lever actions rifles as "Pre-Remington Manufactured" guns. The production lines have little to zero quality control, let the machine handle it. Problem being, if the machine happens to be off by a fraction and leaves a tool mark in the barrel on this particular run it goes unchanged for the whole lot until someone figures it out or not. The machine keeps spitting them out since "it's in the 8 out of 10 tolerance" and that run of guns gets sent out to distributors screwed up.
As far as for hunting we "gun nuts" have our collector quality stuff that doesn't hit the field very often and when it does it's under optimal conditions. My opinion, why would I spend $300-400 on an ADL which may or may not shoot well when I can buy a used 60's or 70's model 700 for near the same money. Additionally, if the used 30-40 year old 700 happens to be a "Friday afternoon or Monday Morning Hangover" gun I can actually get a competent gunsmith to correct it, repair it, or send it back to Remington and demand it be repaired by a Human.
I think the point and advise Nacho and few others on the site have been trying to make and offer members is this: #1 You get what you pay for. #2 New isn't always better. #3 Quality exists moreso in used 20 plus year old firearms than it ever does today. and #4 It's about pride in craftsmanship and quality when you pick up and shoot an all steel and wood gun.
That being said, if you run out to Basspro, Gander, Walmart, Dicks or any of the other chain stores just to "have a gun" don't be surprised when you happen to drop your new ADL, 710, or 770 and the plastic trigger guard breaks off, strips the screw holes out in the molded synthetic stock, and Remington refuses to replace the stock or trigger guard. They can't do it and stay in business on a gun that sells on sale for $329.00.
